Maxon’s Acquirement of forger - Topical Debate

Forger is not a threat, don’t worry. :wink:

Bit late to the party. Best read the entire thread.

I’ve read it. And i still don’t see forger as a threat to Nomad. :smiley:

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I’m glad you did, now this thread can keep moving - love to hear your take now in-depth as to why you think it isn’t. Creatively has already been discussed, on a business scale is still left to be fleshed out for debate. You may have an insight that’s been missed, more input the merrier.

Pal, I’ve spend a lot of time with forger and with Nomad, and the latter is the better app by far! Period.
Stephane isn’t worried about business scale, so i don’t see a reason why you should be.
We’re artists and as long as we have powerfull and innovative tools we’re pretty happy. Nomad has been under heavy delelopment from the begining and is getting better every day! Even if forger get the lead, which i doubt, it’s ok because competiveness brings progress and Nomad will get even better!
So stop worring about things that are beyond your control, go create beautiful things and be happy! :smiley:


OK, why is Nomad better than forger in your opinion? That’ll be nice to move onto next. I’ve used both, quite a lot so your response will be interesting. I’ll always see work progression from a development team faster and more progressive. It’s actually more about debating than worrying, since that’s what will help Nomad flourish better when there’s community input for the developer to read, and it’s also utilising the Lounge area and bringing debates and topics to the table. Forger might go under heavier development now and outpace Nomad, because it’s been acquired. You’ve skirted around that. I am happy thank you, I hope your day is going pleasant as well. Continue.

I don’t really have time explaining why 2+2=4
Just gonna remind you that since autodesk “aquired” mudbox (best alternative for zbrush) in 2007 no major upgrades have been done and this brilliant software is pushed to EoL. They killed softimage for only a few years!
Truth is that corporations are deforming and more often than not killing the original idea of the program. Period.
I like the way Stephane is sculpting this software and the more I use the more I see how brilliant and powerfull it is. Layer system is dope! Non-linear PBR workflow is even better because gives you endless flexibility hence possibilities, which means total artistic freedom. Only limit is your ipad but mostly your imagination.
IMO Nomad is better than Forger in EVERY aspect! That’s why Nomad is my weapon of choice!
And since you’re so familiar with both apps why don’t you tell us what exactly you like better in forger?

I’m sorry if it’s time consuming to be asked to freely express your personal opinion about a knowledgeable topic you’re versed on, but since you did it is appreciated so thank you, I mean that.

Very interesting mention about Softimage/Mudbox - their acquirement resulted in their eventual demise. Even AutoDesk killed off their revamped AutoDesk SoftImage brand a few years ago. I doubt the same will happen to forger. The iPad is only going to get more powerful, its more likely Maxon will seek to dominate this territory.

That puts Nomad development on more tension and stress to keep up before others make an entry, Autodesk could well try their hand again, Adobe has a string of products they could eventually launch, and as mentioned before - Pixologic coming onto the app store. Great for creative work, edit: potentially not so good for Nomad’s future - but as discussed earlier, it can go either way essentially. It could also help Nomad if it evolves into the freeware market, with more robust development from community support etc.

Just to quote you, because it’s more of a blanket paragraph, all I need to do is change three words. - “I like the way SavageInteractive is creating this software and the more I use the more I see how brilliant and powerful it is. Layer system is dope! Non-linear workflow is even better because gives you endless flexibility hence possibilities, which means total artistic freedom. Only limit is your iPad but mostly your imagination.” - I was referring of course, to ProCreate.

The advertising artwork shown on Maxon’s page produced in forger is more than enough to also show off it’s performance capabilities from industry artists. Mentioning the highlights of design apps really isn’t going into any specific software depth.

I am glad you asked me what I like better in forger - I find it’s UI more simplified and intuitive to navigate, but sluggish compared to Nomad’s with interaction - the ability to choose templates at the beginning i enjoy, groups are useful, and its brush system has a familiarity with ProCreate where tuning them is easy. 360 panning with hdri maps, History flushes are useful for freeing up memory, Turntable exports. More in all it’s a few bells and whistles and mainly just interaction I enjoy, but underperforms massively compared to Nomad in key areas for my work flow. (I know you asked what I liked and not a comparison).

Nice to exchange a bit of decent conversation on the matter - again, thank you for your time.

Just to add - your comments on Mudbox did get me thinking - especially how autodesk keeping it in their enclave probably didn’t help in the general long run of things. If Maxon are content on keeping forger as it is, with incremental updates, and relying on consumers to utilise their bigger software packages afterward, they might not even see Nomad as a competitor in that sense, and might just be content leaving forger as it is, and Nomad gains development steam. There’s also Sculptura by Halfspace that are probably more closely linked to Nomad’s performance, that I haven’t invested much time in. For now Nomad remains top the roster, ideally that’s where it stays.

Ultimately discussions like this benefit the developer with the conclusions brought forward by the community. Nice input :+1:

Hi everyone, thread’s been renamed to better suit the evolution of the topic as its progressed, look forward to continual fresh input.

Dude, I launched Forger 1.7.19 and guess what, it looks exactly the same as I left it one year ago. Same retro interface, looks sooo outdated. The pressure gizmo is quite cool tho. Having the ability to flip the toolbox to the left or right is nice. BUT!
Brush size and opacity sliders are ridiculous. And worst part is that they are inconvenient to use. You have to grab the silly circle, otherwise it’s a no go…
No slow down around zero, no precise adjustments when your finger I far from the slider. No infinite intensity thus no snap at 100%. Smoothing and invert buttons are only toggles - no press and hold function… Soo lame!
The tools are okay. Position, angle strength jitters are neat feature. You never get the submenu you were last time, you have to click all the time because the app has amnesia.
Vertex paint is ok, but no projection paint. No way to paint AND sculpt either!
NO dynamic topology! WTF?? It’s almost 2022! Even poor old mudbox got this feature in 2018.
Retopology is slow as fuck. Max vertex count limit around 800 K.

Should I continue, cause I’ve only scratched the surface.

Take my word, Forger is a capable tool, but Nomad is light years ahead!

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Really interesting points regarding forger’s use, some of what you said has highlighted some of my own frustration during use. By and large, the development on forger seems to have stopped at a certain point of progression - it feels like they put their hands up and decided that it was ‘good enough’ and has lacked any real progression since. forger has always felt like an incomplete package essentially, more of an add-on or support than a full suit. It’s why I abandoned it over time. Nomad is a complete design studio by comparison, the signs of development is like looking at the pyramid of giza versus a indent in the ground and some cobblestone by comparison (being a bit harsh on forger). Scratching the surface is good, feel free to go deeper, it’s interesting. The M1 iPads will definitely switch things up a bit coming forward though, a year ago this technology was not as viable, which also could of what sprung Maxon to consider coming onto the app store - often or not, it is better to buy a product and then start working on its shell, than starting from scratch, saves on a lot of cost. Nice input, thank you. I enjoy intelligent debate.

It’s not a debate. I’m just stating facts.

Exposing more of the flaws of forger would like beating a dead dog. Bear in mind that forger has been developed by one man, Javier, who is a damn good programmer, and has his own vision for his app which is 10 years old. For 2011 this was revolutionary, but now it’s not. Nomad is revolutionary. Forger forums are dead and so is the desire of Javier to develop the app. Probably the architecture off the app have reached a limit which can be overcome only by redesigning and rewriting everything from scratch and Javier is unable or doesn’t want to do it alone.

Now Maxon are advertising PBR… guess what, there is no PBR painting. Aaand no per layer control for color, roughness and metalness nor position btw.
Corpo bullshit! They don’t even have shadows. Forget about AO DoF, color mapping, bloom, grading and so on. “From artist for artists” … hilarious! Stephane is not an artist, but he listens very carefully what artists say and constantly improves his app with frequent updates! No such thing from the corpo guys. They are not artists, they are mediocre coders who don’t give a shit as long as the get their salary. Don’t hold your breath for a miracle.

Stating facts whilst exchanging conversation is a debate. All the points you made about Javier’s development might be the reason why he sold the project to Maxon. You’re also forgetting who Maxon are on a corporate level, Redshift, Cinema4D - real industry standard software used by professional artists, I needn’t need to even address you to some of the people using this software. Pascal Clements - the guy who’s work they’re showing on the site is an extraordinarily talented artist who worked on BladeRunner 2046, his work isn’t anything to scoff at.

If Maxon go into full hog development with forger, it’ll undoubtedly be rebranded and integrated further into their services, with major potential.

Stephane - I would argue, is very much an artist, if you go to his site - he has his own gallery, with work, pokemon and all sorts of creations - it’s his models advertising Nomad, so Stephane is very much an artist. Programming on this level is also very much an art in itself - there’s actually a really good book on it here if you care to ever read:

No miracles when expert 3D specialist founded in the 80’s, still going strong today, acquire software, it’s good business and makes sense. Their miracle already happened when they acquired RedShift technologies in 2014 and integrated it into C4D. Maxon acquire what’s good on a business level, there’s many people making these decisions high up - very successful people with knowledge that spans light years beyond yours or mine in this field. That very reason is why I find some of your input amusing, because there isn’t much basis to any of it, sorry to inform you. 2021 they acquired forger - given their historical trend, good things will happen. Look into company history and do research, you’ll be surprised.

If this … if that… bla bla bla - speculations and fakes!

You just don’t get what I’m saying. Your thinking is so childish… I knew it’ll be a waste of time.

I’m outta here.

No need to get personal. Don’t join topical debates if you do not want to discuss. Thank you for your time Genko3D.

Oh no, it’s simply a gallery for SculptGL. I don’t sculpt.

Ahh, interesting. Fair enough, I genuinely thought it was some of your work Stephane - thank you for the correction.

Absolutely wonderful video here about the grand father of computer generated imagery Ivan Edwards and his pioneering work with SketchPad, very interesting for those who wish to deepen their knowledge base in this field.

Are you high? I didn’t write all of this to debate. I wrote it to open your eyes for reality, cause i’m sick and tired of inadequate and idle talks/threads like yours.

If you fail to see the truth, that’s your problem, not ours. Hope you stop living in the clouds, grow up and eventually see the reality.

If you can’t help improve Nomad, shut up and stop speculating how great and powerdul forger will become and how endangered Nomad will be then.

Obviously you’re maxon/forger fanboy/spy and your place is on their forums. Go tell them how glorious and genious they are and beg them to make forger great again.

And BTW, you don’t deserve this avatar!