Maxon’s acquirement of Forger. Website has had a significant tune up since I last saw it, and it’s becoming integrated as part of a larger commercial package for their eco system - like the Adobe Creative Cloud - it’s also nudged up in the Apple App store ranking, it was no.4 now just no.3 spot just below Nomad. Interesting if somewhat of a threatening development for the Nomad community on a commercial aspect. Thoughts, opinions?
I’ll throw in mine based on logical assumption: More community input, larger support, more active help to grow the Nomad brand or it might slip due to the marketing wield of Maxon.
No danger for Nomad, stephane has opted for the best commercial model (like procreate, affinity … etc.) and above all the most important he is involved at 1000% so that his application is up to date as often as possible and innovative. For me forging will simply become a simple addition to the maxxon suite without any further ambitions and above all with the worst economic model for an amateur user, namely “the subscription”. I think I am not mistaken in saying that for Nomad, procreate and others there must be 30% of professional users and all the rest is for the hobbyist, therefore people who like me do not need (and hate ) the subscription system. So don’t panic.
The Nomad community is stronger 
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Forger isnt subscription, it’s only Maxon’s complete package - it’s competitively similar to Nomad and cheaper which makes it a bother, 8.99 in GBP (UK) - except with the additional cost of 0.89 for an in-app purchase. It’s the reason it’s also going to climb higher and might out-rank ProCreate if Maxon get some marketing teeth around it like they’re showing off on their website. They have larger reach than even the devs behind ProCreate (Savage Interactive) in terms of marketing and advertising assets. This community is far more personal and therefor stronger, but unless that entire pool of talent is drawn in, it’ll still be held in the shadow whereas currently, Forger is looking to us (this community) at the moment for their success. Glad to see some input! In a nutshell, this is classic big monopolisation. Offer the same technology, charge less for it, shoud louder for the public to buy it.
I thought it was going to go into a subscription, so much the better for them. For me, the Nomad community is already more constructive just the fact that its developer (Stéphane) is attentive to our requests and our comments is a very positive point. Nomad evolves thanks to the community and the genius of Stéphane. And nomad is so intuitive and powerful.
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Stephane’s a one man army powerhouse and we all know this, the reason were all here is because of his work. One man though cannot compete with an entire team. All the fine points you just made also translate over to Forger - and by extension, every other developer who wishes a harmonious relationship with their customers. Nomad community is strong because of the attraction of talent and the strength in the work thats been produced; again something under threat. It’s why I made this post, larger companies baring down on smaller communities and shutting them out has always been an issue for its members. It would be no different if Pixologic announced they were going to release ZBrush for iPad - a move now they might even pull off of Maxon succeeds well, with a lot of this bouncing off of Nomad’s success. It’s a domino effect, one which we care about. There are a lot of 2D design apps that bounce off each other this way, Stephane was one of the first to innovate the portable 3D design app market with Nomad, and deserves all the recognition possible by us by helping his community grow farther, expand its influence, and rival anything else that tries to push it aside in the coming future.
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I personally wouldn’t worry about it. I purchased both Forger and Nomad over a year ago. I played with Forger for a bit and then got sucked into Nomad it’s now my go to app. Stephane has made some HUGE progress with the app and is working on more updates. I personally only care about a few updates (right now) and am pretty sure they will show up in Nomad eventually. If Forger adds what I’m in need of then I’ll probably just use the two side by side and still focus on nomad. It would honestly take a lot for me to abandon the app.
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It’s not so much as a worry as it is addressing and debating a larger threat on the grander scale of things. Creatively there’s no problem. But for the community’s growth it can be. An app like this could make Nomad’s future continuation non-viable for profit because of over-stripped competition, larger work load and under sales. Whilst I don’t see that happening, at all, it still can be a possibility. The iPad is only going to get more powerful, and plenty of other developers are now looking to tap into that power. Maxon won’t be the only one. The biggest person this affects is obviously the developer, ultimately, whom we all rally behind. Not the people uploading the art, which wouldn’t be possible without the developer; kind of goes in a ring here.
I get your argument and would love to see the money go to someone like Stephane vs a big corporation. However, competition is everywhere. If I had the time and resources I would probably be on a PC using one of the slew of 3D programs out there. For me, the iPad works very well and Nomad is a huge blessing to have. In order to dominate the market, Stephane would have to implement a few new features to that would prevent them from leaving Nomad and pulling up software like Zbrush. However, many artists here do very different things. Some just like to sculpt, animate, 3D print, or use it for graphics/design. So either way it’s impossible to please everyone. If Stephane stays the course, then I don’t think there is threat.
Desktop competition is there, there is little competition on the iPad - it can be counted on one hand, Forger, Nomad & Shapr. Between those three, its currently a mini tussle with Shapr falling behind due to pricey subs and pretty much invoking professionals only, not creative hobbyists. Nomad dominates the market in design apps because of its portability, its why many ZBrush artists adore it, and bounce between both software. Big companies are always going to be a threat to the cottage industry. It’s not about the developer staying on course, of course that’ll happen, it’s whether it remains viable to continue with as a result. It’s why we can’t reference any other desktop sculpting software other than ZBrush - there is others, but they’re under the radar, massively, as a result of Pixologic’s reach and grounding on this market. Maxon could move similarly, or ultimately trigger Pixologic’s debut onto the App store. The very thing not affecting Nomad or Forger for that matter currently is the fact the two remain separated. Maxon’s competition could change that. It’s not our work here that takes a hit ultimately. Either that or Maxon are attempting to take on Pixologic, and this is going to be a big tussle between the two.
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Amusing fact: It’s forger without capital F
From what I’ve seen, forger’s sales has been stable since 2020 (before the acquisition).
The app hasn’t been updated since the acquisition, so I don’t know what to expect.
It would depend on the approach taken (free iPad ZBrush mini? full ZBrush?).
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I’ve been giving them the grace of expecting them to understand how to name their app properly, apparently not - amusing anecdote Stephane. The last time I snooped around their forums it was quite bare bones, quite a few mentions of lack of updates. It’s an unfolding situation on their end which I intend to keep a prying eye over. Maxon could simply be content using forger as a gangway into their eco system effectively, not needing to tune it up more other than average patches and user updates to keep compatibility going through new iOS iterations. As you said, don’t know what to expect, just have to wait and see before counter marketing measures or reactions. Pixologic and Adobe share some similar flavour sauce to how they approach their products, a ZBrush Lite/Mini that has the ability to interface with their desktop software with the iPad would seem like an approach that keeps consumers in their enclave, I could also see that just being one pricey all-year round sub to have access to both simultaneously.
It’s also something that does tantalise me about long future goals for Nomad also my friend, the idea of a full Nomad desktop suite that has the ability to work with the iPad. I know that kind of approach is a long way off, the foundations for the potential of a huge expansion of the Nomad Sculpt brand has already been laid by its success. More food for thought!
Interesting topic, I think as users we should embrace all sort of competition, as this is what brings innovation to the field… Just because a big corporation is joining the market doesn’t necessarily mean the end for the small guy, look at procreate, adobe first attempt to join the mobile market was a fiasco, procreate is designed from the ground up with the mobile limitations in mind… The same would happen to zb, if they don’t redesign. From ground up, it’s not a trivial thing…
Nomad is a powerhouse already, I wouldn’t b surprised if a big company wouldn’t first try to acquire it before developing their own approach.
And in the worst case scenario, if all sculpt programs join the iOS ecosystem, and nomad suffers a huge hit on sales, there is always the option to go open source like blender did… Perhaps for the desktop version and Stephanie could work as a foundation deciding what to bring to the iOS version or what not, and live out of donations… And the love of the community.
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I am just reacting to one point, Nomad must not become a desktop application, it is the great strength of nomad, it is precisely being a nomad. I have zbrushed on my pc for decades and barely did 3 things because I have less time with my family life to stay on my pc like I did when I was younger whereas with nomad I can sculpt 15 min resume 1 hour after changing parts etc … And bringing Nomad to the desktop is to put it in competition with very big competitors.
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Interesting input as well; I do agree, creatively we embrace all aspects - but this isnt regarding our creations and art - which we can do on whatever setup we like. This is about Nomad, a unique, one-off piece of work without that safety net. ProCreate are a full development team, and they didn’t find their foothold by rivalling Adobe at all, that’s Affinity - ProCreate is only as good as it is because its on iOS, which in the larger scale of things only hold a small percentage of market share. There’s a reason ProCreate isn’t on the desktop - because they are fully stepping into Adobe’s territory and they will get swallowed up. By remaining solely on iOS they’ve steered clear of tussling with that juggernaut for now. That’s changing though. Its very interesting to suggest to downgrade someones life quality by assuming bills can be paid by ‘living off donations’ - it’s not a tantalysing prospect whatsoever if I put my feet in those shoes. If Nomad brand were to collapse, the remnants would undoubtedly be left as open source, and Im pretty sure Stephane is smart enough to build another project on a new adventure, where his talent and skills would see full time paid work. Considering all the effort put in, for a larger company to ruin all that because of larger assets, funding and bigger mega phone, is kind of the point of this topic. Glad to see some extra input from others on this topic, none of this is written with any scarring, it’s just solid debate.
That’s a very valid point also. Everyone has their points to add in, the more the merrier because conversations and debates like this, strengthen communities by getting us all to bump our heads together. There is no malice in my words or intent, we’re here because of Nomad, and ideally, we want this app to stick around without it being eventually swallowed up, and becomes talk about another historical piece of software we all used to enjoy once upon a time. cough Windows 98*
Becoming open source and living out of the support from the community not necessarily means downgrading someone life style… If the community is strong enough and the project has its merit it’s a total viable way to support further development… But just to make clear I wasn’t saying he should do that, that was an ultimate possibility if the market gets over saturated with big competitors and all seams lost…
Regarding a desktop version of nomad, yeah I can see the point that the beauty of it is be on the go, but if there was a version I could hop in and keep working when on my desk, and jump back when I’m on the move, it could b interesting. Not having to send files to a different app where things can get lost in translation or file formats, could b a reason enough to use the desktop version.
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I completely understand the point you’re coming from as well, Blender is a fantastic example - but again, it’s relying on the strength of a team, and Blender has attracted some high level performers to help with that project thats taken decades, the same could happen for Nomad, yes - and I wholly thoroughly agree, it could end up being highly successful in its own right this way. That would, however, require more man power over a longer time - and as you said, strength in the community, which begins right here in the Lounge, with debates like this my friend.
I doubt Stephane would mind active community members volunteering their creative time when they can to help grow Nomad Sculpt brand and actively promote it by creating high level content, sharing it through our social media feeds as we do, bug hunting and fine tuning features; but also remaining loyal to the brand in that aspect.
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Yes not only blender, but look at Godot, or krita for example… The point of becoming open source is exactly this, let other ppl help to develop the project further… If blender wasn’t open sourced it’s development wouldn’t be not nearly as developed as it is now…
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Fantastic insights my friend. There’s no retort for that other than whole hearted agreement on that subject.
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With that said, this already has unearthed a potential opportunity for Nomad’s future just by ironing out the potential avenues forger and other apps could disrupt its development - it’s exactly what’s needed to help projects like this survive long term. Look forward to other inputs on this thread, would like to keep it moving; but with all that said and done… let’s get sculpting! 
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