# Move base layer **URL:** \ **Category:** Feature Request\ **Created:** [February 24, 2023, 7:50pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/move-base-layer/10197 "2023-02-24T19:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![shushustorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@shushustorm](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/shushustorm)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 7:50pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/move-base-layer/10197/1 "2023-02-24T19:50:56Z")
Hey everyone! Having worked on the base layer, I cannot move it upwards in the layers hierarchy. Would be great, though. Best wishes, Shu ---
**Author:** ![stephomi](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/stephomi/32/19583_2.png) [@stephomi](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/stephomi)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 11:15pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/move-base-layer/10197/2 "2023-02-24T23:15:54Z")
It wouldn’t make much sense. - the original shape is lost for good, so no way to compute an offset layer - same for painting, the base layer doesn’t have any alpha painting channel. So there would be no way to differentiate white from “painted” vs “not painted”. The best you could do is to have a fully opaque layer (that’s what the Bake layer does in the Topology menu) ---
**Author:** ![shushustorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@shushustorm](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/shushustorm)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 9:38am UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/move-base-layer/10197/3 "2023-02-25T09:38:02Z")
Thanks for the reply! Maybe I misunderstood the base layer. So if you don’t specify anything, everything sculpted and painted is put there? I thought layers were all just offsets. Then again, I only use those for painting. I stumbled upon this when I wanted to rearrange vertex paint below the base layer, but that didn’t work. Maybe the vertex colors of the base lyer could be extracted into a new layer and wiping the base to not using any vertex colors? ---
**Author:** ![stephomi](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/stephomi/32/19583_2.png) [@stephomi](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/stephomi)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 4:07pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/move-base-layer/10197/4 "2023-02-25T16:07:12Z")
If you extract the base layer it will be fully opaque. Anything that goes below will be completely hidden. ---
**Author:** ![shushustorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@shushustorm](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/shushustorm)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/move-base-layer/10197/5 "2023-02-25T20:33:25Z")
I see. So it’s like a “Background Color” layer (e.g. Procreate), but instead being able to choose a color for that, you can paint on it. Maybe it’s better if you could choose a flat color for base layer and you can’t otherwise edit it? And all other layers are offsets? I find it somewhat confusing. ---
**Author:** ![stephomi](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/stephomi/32/19583_2.png) [@stephomi](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/stephomi)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2023, 11:05pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/move-base-layer/10197/6 "2023-02-25T23:05:51Z")
> [@shushustorm](#): > > Maybe it’s better if you could choose a flat color for base layer and you can’t otherwise edit it? Layers adds more memory, it’s not free. One alpha channel for each material channel (color+rough+metal), plus position offset (float xyz). You find it confusing because you are coming from a 2d background. ---
**Author:** ![shushustorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@shushustorm](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/shushustorm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2023, 10:53am UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/move-base-layer/10197/7 "2023-02-26T10:53:28Z")
No, 2D:3D is about 50:50 for me. But I use Nomad differently than any 3D application that I have used over the decades. I am heavily using vertex colors for masking purposes and that, I think, makes more sense in a way painting applications start from a base. For example, Blender keeps vcols and voffsets separately: vcol layers and blend shapes. I understand sculpting tools can make use of coupling that data (e.g. stuff that offsets needs another color as well → you don’t have to paint again later) and I think most sculpting software, e.g. 3D-Coat, does indeed behave just like that, but I think Nomad isn’t just useful for sculpting. One might be able to argue about whether or not the base layer should be editable for offsets (can’t think of any use cases myself, though, since if I want to edit the mesh itself, I edit it directly), but I think it should be locked for painting, since you can easily end up in a situation where you painted there and then need to move some color below. The memory issue could be solved by not including vcol data on the base layer? ---
**Author:** ![stephomi](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/stephomi/32/19583_2.png) [@stephomi](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/stephomi)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2023, 12:28pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/move-base-layer/10197/8 "2023-02-26T12:28:12Z")
To clarify the wording: blend shape = shape keys = layer. > [@shushustorm](#): > > For example, Blender keeps vcols and voffsets separately: vcol layers and blend shapes. vcol are not layers, it’s just additional color attribute. Blender has no layer for color (no blending afaik, etc). Typically if you export a mesh from Nomad with 0 layer in glTF, you’ll end up with 2 vcol (one for color and one with packed metal/rough/mask). You can read it back in blender here [Files | Nomad](https://nomadsculpt.com/manual/files#for-blender) However colors in layers are ignored in blender. There are some softwares that can load color per-layer (houdini, etc). > [@shushustorm](#): > > The memory issue could be solved by not including vcol data on the base layer? Still 3 opacity layers (color/roughness/metalness). If you need a layer… just create a layer. ---
**Author:** ![shushustorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@shushustorm](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/shushustorm)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2023, 5:25pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/move-base-layer/10197/9 "2023-02-27T17:25:31Z")
Well, you can apply math to the vcol attributes using nodes or Python. At least that’s how I am using them a lot. Of course, you can just create a layer at the beginning and be done with this. With this topic, I just wanted to say that you can easily end up in a one way situation: Create new data from scratch on a new layer, since you painted on the base and you can’t paint below that. ---
**Author:** ![Bezzo](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/bezzo/32/18150_2.png) [@Bezzo](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/Bezzo)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 11:46am UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/move-base-layer/10197/10 "2023-02-28T11:46:27Z")
Surely it just comes down to good process? If you paint everything on one layer in Photoshop then you’re stuffed. Same in Nomad. Some planning is necessary if you’re going to rely on layered painting / sculpting. Going to paint……new layer. Going to deform……new layer. OR, just freeball it and get what you get 👍🏻 ---
**Author:** ![shushustorm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9e8a1a/32.png) [@shushustorm](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/shushustorm)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/move-base-layer/10197/11 "2023-04-18T15:22:55Z")
No, it’s different than 2D. It’s like being able to paint on the “background” color in Photoshop and you can’t move anything below it. However, it seems I am getting a Base layer now only when creating a new layer, with the new layer auto selected and red instead of green UI if you select the Base. Not sure it was like that previously and I just accidentally edited the base. Anyway, I still think being able to color the base doesn’t make a lot of sense. But that’s just my opinion.