# Forger …classic **URL:** \ **Category:** Lounge\ **Created:** [October 27, 2021, 11:31pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291 "2021-10-27T23:31:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![knacki](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/knacki/32/1297_2.png) [@knacki](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/knacki)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 9:43am UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/22 "2021-11-18T09:43:27Z")
It won’t. After some IOS updates, it will stop working sooner or later. Not in App Store = no support and update. Lost some lovely paid games this way. ---
**Author:** ![F\_Kal](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/f_kal/32/4979_2.png) [@F\_Kal](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/F_Kal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2021, 8:15pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/23 "2021-11-18T20:15:47Z")
Wow, very disturbing! ---
**Author:** ![Genko3D](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/genko3d/32/2649_2.png) [@Genko3D](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/Genko3D)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 9:01am UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/24 "2021-11-19T09:01:33Z")
Nothing unexpected. John Mills do you still think that this is part of Forger great development and its transformation into Nomad threat? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mills](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/john_mills/32/5817_2.png) [@John\_Mills](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/John_Mills)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 9:09am UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/25 "2021-11-19T09:09:41Z")
@Genko3D In terms of speaking on Maxon’s success - I’d say so. They now have two apps, one subscription based and it can now link directly into Cinema4D. Maxon have clearly defined a path they’re headed down. Whether it leaves new consumers pleased who knows? Forger will always remain a competitive threat to Nomad irregardless. They’re adopting a different path than I thought they might take, but Forger clearly isn’t going away anytime soon or just going to disappear into the ether. They’ve got a capitol F now, that’s a great start. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![superrune](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/superrune/32/6655_2.png) [@superrune](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/superrune)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 10:11am UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/26 "2021-11-19T10:11:08Z")
Well they definitely lost one user here. I have both programs, but I’m leaving Forger now that they will only be updating the subscription only version. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mills](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/john_mills/32/5817_2.png) [@John\_Mills](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/John_Mills)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 10:15am UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/27 "2021-11-19T10:15:47Z")
Ditto. Forger just isn’t good enough to require a sub, when it was only 8.99 one off it was comparable - can see this working out lovely for C4D users already wrapped up in their services or learning the software, but it’ll alienate those who aren’t. I suspect Maxon have a large enough consumer base they’re trying to port over which explains this approach. Millions of consumers paying each month, one user is just an infinite cash cow. ---
**Author:** ![knacki](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/knacki/32/1297_2.png) [@knacki](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/knacki)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 10:57am UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/28 "2021-11-19T10:57:45Z")
> [@John\_Mills](#): > > Millions of consumers paying each month, one user is just an infinite cash cow. Do you think so? I wouldn‘t see them in millions, but I don‘t have a clue. I am disappointed as Maxxon still sells a perpetual version of C4D. Paid updates are a problem on IOS, I guess. If people have a choice between Nomad & Forger ……. Well UV Painting could be an option still missing. But the level of Forgers options……I would be surprised if this is a big task for Stephane to beat. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mills](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/john_mills/32/5817_2.png) [@John\_Mills](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/John_Mills)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 11:02am UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/29 "2021-11-19T11:02:00Z")
Cinema4D user base, I can see that in the millions worldwide realistically - maybe not double digits, but 2-3? Sure. It sits in the top tier of commercial 3D suits alongside Max and Maya, and corporations use it - even Apple. Maxon by the looks of it, are now just catering really for their users and their software - basically it’s join their crew or not at all. No-one realistically is going to pay sub for Forger unless they’re using Maxon’s services when Nomad is one-off. This also what makes me think they have large enough user base, they’re not going after new consumers attractively. The fact they made this move is bold, dropping a cheap one off payment for being roped into their financial ecosystem perpetually. Either a gutsy person made that decision or an idiot; or a bit of both. ---
**Author:** ![Genko3D](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/genko3d/32/2649_2.png) [@Genko3D](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/Genko3D)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/30 "2021-11-19T16:46:50Z")
Haha… You’re soo funny 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mills](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/john_mills/32/5817_2.png) [@John\_Mills](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/John_Mills)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/31 "2021-11-19T16:49:37Z")
Ahh, Evegeni - better that when we just get along, right? 😉 👌 ---
**Author:** ![stephomi](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/stephomi/32/19583_2.png) [@stephomi](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/stephomi)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 4:49pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/32 "2021-11-19T16:49:56Z")
> [@John\_Mills](#): > > They now have two apps One app, Forger Classic being removed from the store. > [@John\_Mills](#): > > Cinema4D user base, I can see that in the millions worldwide realistically - maybe not double digits, but 2-3? In my opinion you are way off target. 600M€ for the parent company, Maxon/red shift is 10% of that (Media and entertainment). Divide by average annual price of the soft and you are more or less at 100k users. I do exclude piracy though. > **[Annual Report 2020 | NEMETSCHEK](https://ir.nemetschek.com/websites/nemetschek/English/50/annual-report-2020.html)** > > Annual Report 2020 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mills](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/john_mills/32/5817_2.png) [@John\_Mills](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/John_Mills)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2021, 4:52pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/33 "2021-11-19T16:52:54Z")
I am reaching on quite high figures including people still using it on older hardware/desktops and piracy in a lot of countries - especially lesser developed nations, which, obviously doesn’t contribute to their profits. But yes, can see what I pegged at a higher figure than what they probably have actively at any one point. Over the course of their history though and people returning to the software, etc. probably closer to the figure ---
**Author:** ![Steve](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/steve/32/1373_2.png) [@Steve](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/Steve)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 7:03pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/34 "2021-12-14T19:03:55Z")
> **[Maxon Announces an Agreement to Acquire the Assets of Pixologic,…](https://www.maxon.net/en/article/maxon-announces-an-agreement-to-acquire-the-assets-of-pixologic-makers-of-zbrush)** > > Acquisition Brings Industry-Leading 3D Sculpting and Painting Expertise to Maxon Looks like Forger might get a boost of Zfeatures ---
**Author:** ![Adam](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/adam/32/12517_2.png) [@Adam](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/Adam)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/35 "2021-12-14T19:11:40Z")
Am I reading this correct that Maxon will be buying Pixologic Zbrush. If so this means Zbrush will probably go subscription based. 😳 ---
**Author:** ![Steve](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/steve/32/1373_2.png) [@Steve](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/Steve)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 7:25pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/36 "2021-12-14T19:25:06Z")
No more free updates but maybe they’ll redesign the UI 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Adam](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/adam/32/12517_2.png) [@Adam](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/Adam)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 7:42pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/37 "2021-12-14T19:42:21Z")
I have no problem paying for big major updates. I’ve only paid once for Zbrush and have been very lucky that they haven’t charged for the big changes they implemented over the years. I’m just not keen on the Autodesk buy competition up and then convert to subscription style payment. Just like with Forger they said they would support it but renamed it and have pulled all support from the original Forger at the same time weaning users onto the subscription version. But yes the Zbrush UI was and is a nightmare. I have been using Zbrush hardly at all recently because of Nomad. ---
**Author:** ![Steve](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/steve/32/1373_2.png) [@Steve](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/Steve)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2021, 7:50pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/38 "2021-12-14T19:50:25Z")
Maxon do subscription but they also do perpetual licenses too, it will be interesting to see where they take it, decent uving would be a nice addition, would also be interesting to see if they add in some redshift rendering feature… we shall see Whatever happens, there are going to be a lot of pissed off people in the forums, I remember when Adobe bought Substance and their forum descended into a virtual lynch mob ---
**Author:** ![knacki](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/knacki/32/1297_2.png) [@knacki](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/knacki)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/39 "2021-12-15T00:42:51Z")
> [@Steve](#): > > Whatever happens, there are going to be a lot of pissed off people in the forums, I remember when Adobe bought Substance and their forum descended into a virtual lynch mob Not without reason. Adobe is very intelligent in making apps dumb. Or just kill it like Mixamo Fuse , Freehand, Flash…… and Maxon? That is third soft they acquired which I have. Trapcode Suite, Forger, zBrush. Forger will be dead soon with next IOS update. Trapcode - I don’t know. Money is short in pandemic times. Won’t go subscription as long as possible. Good bye zBrush. I can’t imagine this will end up nicely. And one should have known that the moment Joseph Drust disappeared 🤣 He was always the good soul … ---
**Author:** ![Steve](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/steve/32/1373_2.png) [@Steve](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/Steve)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 7:03am UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/40 "2021-12-15T07:03:33Z")
If the day comes when Stephane has had enough of us lot demanding new features and UI changes and decides to take early retirement by selling up I hope he approaches Serif first… Affinity Sculpt would be a nice addition to their suite of apps and they openly reject the subscription model 😉 ---
**Author:** ![stephomi](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex005/user_avatar/forum.nomadsculpt.com/stephomi/32/19583_2.png) [@stephomi](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/u/stephomi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291/41 "2021-12-15T18:15:27Z")
> [@Steve](#): > > decides to take early retirement by selling up _Nomad is proud to announce its acquisition by NFT company BitScam, etc_ [Previous page](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.nomadsculpt.com/t/forger-classic/4291.md?page=3)